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Post by Draxas on Dec 24, 2006 1:12:47 GMT -5
None of this changes the fact that OoT is still the best Zelda game ever, bar none, Twilight Princess included. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that TP would be a very different game (or possibly not exist at all) if it wasn't for the fact that Link grows up in OoT.
While MM ranks rather high on my list of favorite Zeldas, I still don't think it holds a candle to OoT. The darker atmosphere does have more appeal, true, but most of the other strengths listed above could just as easily be construed as weaknesses. For example, yes the dungeons are really long. This is a problem if you aren't completely sure of every move you need to make next, because of that damned time limit. Sure, they're great, until you realize that you're going to have to restart it because it's taking too long to finish. Having lots of sidequests is also nice... But a lot of the ones in MM are REALLY FREAKING STUPID. Anyone else infuriated by trying to beat the shooting gallery records on consecutive days like I was? That one's the worst offender of the lot, but there are others that are nearly as bad. I personally prefer having lots of dungeons and fewer sidequests than the other way around, because let's face it; since the very beginning, the dungeons are what Zelda games are about. Something just rubs me the wrong way when a game has only 4 or 5 dungeons in it (this was my biggest complaint with WW).
Still, MM has been sitting on my list of games that I've been meaning to get back to for quite some time now. Just because it has some flaws, doesn't mean that it's not standard issue Zelda awesomeness at its core.
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Post by N3B on Dec 24, 2006 14:44:14 GMT -5
As far as dungeons go, I'm partial to OOT style, but I think MM makes up for its lack of dungeons by having them so much more complex, unique, and plot-oriented.
Personally, I can very easily overlook something and get completely stuck, and I often hate getting involved in big, branching dungeons because that means that you will run into some dead-ends unless you do everything in the proper order. While this makes MM's dungeons more intimidating to me, I have to admit they have a lot more bang for their buck in just the 4 they have versus the 5 (6 if you count Ganon's Castle, 7 if you lump the first three into "one") temples in OOT. However, I hate having to find the 15 damn faries to get the great fairy -- such a pain in the arse.
As far as plot goes, I felt the dungeons in OOT were kind of lame (compared to MM). You go through each temple to awaken a sage (and each one of them says "Funny how I would turn out to be the sage of ______, now take this medallion that "adds my power to yours" but it really does nothing, and ultimately all I'm going to do to help you is make a bridge and give you a nice perfect shot at Ganon's face after you've already busted your ass getting him close enough to death for us to be able to do that in the first place when you could just as easily have finished him off without us.") for them to get m einto Ganon's castle (and them destroying the barriers is total BS -- I'm the one who shoots the light arrow into the overgrown peanut and causes the power source to explode), while you're still the one doing all work, and they do next to nothing.
In MM, you go through the temples to awaken the four giants of the land who will directly save the world. It actually feels like there's a reason I'm going through all of the work I'm doing, because the giants are actually going to help me and have an impact on the world. They're not just figureheads that do me no real good. Not to mention the stuff with each race/region leading up to each dungeon pulls you into it a lot more than "Oh, there are 5 temples, one here here here here and here, now go rescue the sages."
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Post by Draxas on Dec 24, 2006 16:48:05 GMT -5
Come on, the dungeon enders have always been basically useless. Some examples?
Legend of Zelda: The 8 pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom are really just one big, overgrown key to get you past the "Ones that does not have Triforce can't go in" old man in level 9. Zelda 2: Placing the 6 gems drops the barrier in the Final Palace. It's an overgrown key, only in reverse. Link to the Past: Like the maidens actually did anything useful. Considering their level of collective "power" (didn't save them from being kidnapped and sacrificed now, did it?), I can't help but wonder how they even manage to drop the barrier on Ganon's Tower. Link's Awakening: The 8 instruments are once again just one big collective key for the Wind Fish Egg. Maybe that should be 9, since you need to trigger the song on the Ocarina in the first place (though that is actually useful elsewhere)..
Now that I think about it, very few dungeons ever actually yield anything genuinely useful at the end (save heart containers): The Color Dungeon in Link's Awakening DX, the last few dungeons in Wind Waker granted and powered up the Master Sword... But that's about it, really (though I admit my memory is hardly perfect in this regard).
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Post by N3B on Dec 24, 2006 18:30:09 GMT -5
You just justified my point: in MM, doing the dungeons and helping people actually means something. In every other game it's a lame excuse for gameplay (even if the gameplay is fun). The only real point to doing dungeons in OOT is for the heart container and the item to vanquish the "evil threat that will destroy Hyrule" that only you and one other person care about. Link's a crafty guy, and I'd like to think that if Zelda (Sheik) gave him the light arrows right after he's released from the Sacred Realm, he could find a way to get over to Ganon's castle and skip all the other nonsense (the only plot reason I can see to not doing this is that Link "needs to get stronger before he can face Ganon").
Another thing that I thought about: in MM, the inhabitants seem to actually care about what's going on. In OOT, Gannondorf got the Triforce of Power and turned Hyrule into an evil place -- but no one seems to really care except the sages. You can see changes in the game world (there being no Zoras or Gorons, Hyrule Castle Town desolated, Lake Hylia drained), but no one seems to give a damn (and surprisingly, there are less baddies in Hyrule Field as AL than as YL, contrary to what I would think when the "evil king takes over and turns Hyrule into a land of evil.").
You hear a few comments from like the Bazaar owner as AL and King Zora that things have changed, but it doesn't seem to bother anyone at all. In MM, you can see and feel how the threat is affecting people.
I don't mean this to degrade OOT (because it's a wholly great game), but to praise MM. It just has more emotion and believable characters / situations in it.
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Post by N3B on Dec 31, 2006 22:20:11 GMT -5
Got for Christmas: Gothic 3, Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil. I however, do not have the original Doom 3.... so I will have to order it off the internet or something.
Also beat MM.
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Post by Ranger on Jan 11, 2007 5:04:44 GMT -5
my suggestion is just go with it and play doom 3: RoE it is non-linear besides some opening dialogue I think. As for TP well lets see you go around being the whipping boy of a shadow from the land of twilight merely because your being outwitted for most of the beginning. Jedi mind tricks. Link's good with puzzles but pretty stupid with people.
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Post by Draxas on Jan 12, 2007 0:11:39 GMT -5
I never want to see Wolf Link or Midna in another Zelda game ever again.
List updated.
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Post by Ranger on Jan 13, 2007 0:56:47 GMT -5
I liked the wolf
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Post by N3B on Feb 4, 2007 5:55:22 GMT -5
List updated.
I saw Doom 3 at GameStop today and was quite surprised. Naturally, I purchased it.
I'm also replaying GW. I can't bring myself to buy Nightfall, and I never played Factions (and don't plan to), so I'm replaying the original on a N/Mo that I have several different build ideas for. I am, however, completely lost when in PVP arenas because I still fight against all the classes in Factions/Nightfall that I know nothing about, and have new terrains to fight on and crazy stuff.
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Post by N3B on Feb 24, 2007 13:46:22 GMT -5
Got the Devil May Cry 5th anniversary collection, and so far have been really enjoying it, though the first boss has proven to be perhaps the hardest first-boss I've ever fought in a video game.
I lost my G3 save files. I had stopped playing games for 2 weeks or so, and then un-installed a couple of games I was no longer playing (FEAR, Prey, VTM:B, Oblivion) and for some reason my G3 save files were taken with it. So I've put it down until I can recover from the loss of those 50-60 hours before starting over.
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Post by Ranger on Feb 24, 2007 22:43:50 GMT -5
wait wait wait... you're saying you've had prey all this time and we haven't multiprey'd yet? WTF mate!
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Post by N3B on Feb 25, 2007 7:53:30 GMT -5
It's a pretty poor FPS Great game, but poor FPS. But, if you wish to MP it, mayhaps I can re-install it and we can try something.
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Post by Ranger on Feb 26, 2007 2:22:01 GMT -5
nah I rarely play it on the comp. I loved the game and if I multiprey it'll be on 360
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Post by N3B on Mar 3, 2007 18:29:00 GMT -5
Beat DMC, now doing hard-mode. I worry about fighting certain bosses that were a pain on normal mode.
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Post by Altl on Mar 3, 2007 21:39:12 GMT -5
Beat DMC, now doing hard-mode. I worry about fighting certain bosses that were a pain on normal mode. I read Beat DMC and Immediately thought Run DMC, it was a let down when I figured out it meant Devil May Cry.
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