Classes and Occupations

[Notesurfer]

I sent N3B a PM about this, to make it more simplified.
Occupations:
Occupations will be chosen by the member upon first joining. It will then cost lots of exp to change. Mages can only wield staff weapons (weak) but are the only class that can cast both offensive and healing spells, as well as being the only class to be able to cast defensive spells. Archers are the only class that can wield ranged weapons, and cannot wield staffs or close range weapons. They can wield bows, lances, and throwing knives (etc). They can also wield arrows. Warriors cannot wield bows or staffs, but they can wield close range powerful weapons (swords, pikes, etc). Warriors and archers cannot cast spells. However, they CAN use a scroll, which is basically a one-time-use spell. It disintegrates after use.
Classes:
Classes will be based on a combination of the member's occupation and main elemental favorites. Depending on the class, the member in question would also have an element strength, and weakness. Unless they are balanced. For example, an archer with Ice arrows and an Ice bow would be an Ice Archer. They would be strong in icy conditions, but weak against fire. However, a warrior who wields a wind sword and wears earth armor would be a Knight, with no real strengths or weaknesses. To summarize:
Archers who are balanced become Paladins.
Mages who are balanced become Sorcerers.
Warriors who are balanced become Knights.
And the rest should be easy enough to figure out . . . hopefully . . .

[Draxas]

?

Archers with lances? Archers becoming Paladins? I'm confused...

I think the most important question that springs to my mind is: Is there any difference between Archers and Fighters besides their weapons? Because it doesn't really seem like it...

Then again, if Archers can't use melee weapons, if something were to close the distance, they'd be dead meat. So meh... The system as it is doen't really differentiate anyway.

How often are we planning on making weapons and armor with attached elements appear anyway? I was under the impression that most mundane weapons (and many magical ones) would be element-less. Your description makes these elemental items seem commonplace.

This section as it is needs some work, methinks. Archers appear to be lightly armed and armored Fighters right now, with no true abilities to differentiate the two. Since hits by both players and monsters are automatic every round, Archers = Fighters who are just bad at their job.

Related: see my last post in the main RPG thread, I think out loud about the job system a bit at the end.

[Notesurfer]

Ah see, you misinterpreted me. Archers fight from long range. The weapons they carry basically usually have more attack and less defense then Warriors. The only time their long range-ness comes into play is in the wilderness really. It all comes down to what weapon they carry . . . other than that, it's the same see?

[Draxas]

Ah, but the Wilds are a pure RP zone now...

Differentiating a job class simply by the weapons they carry seems a bit silly, no? Why not bundle Archer and Fighter into a single class (Fighter), and just allow them to use both ranged and melee weapons, but not magic?

Regardless, I still have no idea what throwing knives and lances have to do with archery.

[niff]

You could change the archer class to "thief", then the balanced class of that be "assassin" meaning let them wield lighter, shorter and less powerful swords, but let them also use throwing knives and bows for long range. So overall, it makes the thief seem as atteractive as a warrior to pick?

[N3B]

please don't have this decided by items equipped. that'd get really confusing. because say one day the person has a fire sword and fire shield (excuse it all) equipped, then the next day they change to ice sword and ice shield (excuse it all). some guy could get confused by what they are, not knowing that they changed their profile.

rather, i think it should be chosen; when they make their profile, they can say "Fire Elemental" or whatever. if they want to be balanced, they can just be a "knight".

[Raven]

Why not give the archers abilities to carry short-range weapons, but they're really weak compared to the warrior's? And aversely, why not have the warriors carry ranged weapons that are really weak compared to archers?

Three classes also seems a bit small for me, we should split the mages into offensive mages and healing mages, both of which can defend at an equal rate. They can both use some of the other mage's magic, yet (again) a lot weaker than if they were the actual class that specializes in them.

I'm really using FFXI as a basis here, but what about a hand-to-hand fighter as well? They use brass knuckles or claws, and have some use of warrior weapons. Thieves seem intriguing, but not really useful for now, I assume.

[N3B]

Read the last two posts of this thread. this is what i like. rate and find errors in it

by being in a different class, you could use different skills, rather than different weapons. of course, there would be limits on weapons. but we'd post it like:

Broad sword:
Damage:40
str required: 30
Jobs: Warrior / Fighter, Paladin, (WHATEVER).

so basically, you could use the weapon if it's defined usable in the jobs area. of course, Magic being a whole different realm than simple weaponry, the system would be different.

we'd obviously have multiple forms of magicians (using FF as an example, black mage, white mage, red mage (technically he's a mage).) . then, we'd have runes that only certain ones could use.

Black Hole
Damage: 50
Required Magic: 20
Jobs: Black Mage

Heal
Damage: 20
Required Magic: 10
Jobs: Red Mage, Black Mage, White Mage

Cure
Damage: 100
Required Magic: 20
Jobs: White Mage

a simple example. Notice that heal can be used by all, since it only heals 20. cure which heals 100 can be used by a white mage only since healing is their specialty. of course there'd be limits to using this only once per battle to keep users from abusing it. could NOT be used outside of battle. otherwise, again it'd get abused.

it'd work the same for using weapons. Skills could be such as this:

Thief Skill #1
- Theif can take 3 dropped items rather than 1

of course, we'd think up 2-3 for each occupation, and have these cost a lot of exp.

[Raven]

I like the Job Class system that Draxas suggested. However (taking another thing from FFXI here), should we have all of the different classes open to people from the very beginning? Maybe just have Warrior, Healer, Sorcerer (offensive mage), and Monk, with others like the Archer and Summoner to be available later? In that case, instead of the XP penalty for switching, in order to change it, you would have to complete a difficult quest that could either be done by yourself or in a party.

Just some thoughts.

[N3B]

i believe in FF, different selectable jobs are obtained by mastering a number of skills from other jobs. it's a possibility that we could do something simmilar; you master 2 fighter skills, and you're now able to become a warrior.

however, this would become very hard to regulate. unless we had a thing in the library which would say requirements to become a certain job.

[Draxas]

Not really, no...

Look, I don't think there is much point in separating classes based on equipment alone. If there is going to be a deeper job class system than mage/notamage, then I think each class should have skills or abilities that the others do not possess.

Look at it this way: A man's house is broken into, and he takes up a weapon to defend himself. If he picks up a sword, but his "job class" is an Archer, does that mean he cannot use the pointy end to make people bleed? Conversely, a Fighter could not fire a loaded crossbow at a foe, simply because he is not called an Archer? Granted, this is more of a nitpicky complaint at the job system in general. But, if the Archer defending himself with a sword has a myriad of tricks he could do with a bow, but simply knows to poke people with the pointy end of the sword, then he is justified in being called an Archer, despite the fact that he is using a sword right now. By the same token, a Fighter may possess half a dozen blade styles and techniques to dispatch foes, but would probably aim poorly and fire infrequently with a bow. This doesn't mean he CAN'T use it, he is just far better off with a sword in his hands.

The job classes could take this into account as well. A particular class (ie. Archer) could specialize in a particular weapon (bow and crossbow). They COULD wield something else (many Archers carry knives for close in fighting), but their class techniques would be unavailable with a different weapon. Or perhaps, they could additionally be penalized for using a weapon outside of their class specialization (damage is halved, or possibly reduced based on which class).

EDIT: Wow, this took much longer than it should have to write... This is (sort of) in response to Niff above...

[niff]

There could be a max limit to boost skills, like..

Warrior - (magic is weakest skill)

Strength - Unlimited *boost as much as you want*
Magic - 150
Dexterity - 200
Vitality - 250

*shrug*

[N3B]

how about this:

Strength: This determines the level of melee weapon you can use
Dexterity: This determines the level of ranged weapon you can use
Magic: This determines the level of magic runes you can use

----

as long as you fit the requirements, you can use a weapon / rune. it'd have to be equiped, so you could only equip one at a time (unless it's a rune, then you could equip 3). when you go into battle, you can't change the weapon, so you're stuck with it.

basically, this system does away with job classifications. you can still HAVE a job if you decide mentally that you prefer magic over swords, and call your self a magacian, but other than that, there wouldn't be any jobs. for example, if i prefered magic, i'd say:

N3B - Magician
HP: 50
Dex: 10
Strength: 10
Magic: 40

i could then, also use a melee weapon from the "strength" area , and still be considerd a magician. rather than having scrolls and runes, we just have runes, which is magic that can be used. however, if you were going to be a strength-dominant person, and wanted a heal rune, so you set your magic at the minimum, you could NOT actually fight in battle. because you can only equip up to 3 runes at a time, OR 1 weapon, OR one ranged, you'd have a healing ability, and that'd be it. basically, there'd be a magician and non-magician rank.

so your job is really mentally based on which you perfer. as long as your stats meet the requirements, you can go ahead and use it. i could have 50 magic and 50 strength, equip a "black hole" rune one round of battle, then use a "broad sword" for my next battle.

[niff]

Can you socket weapons too? (place element gems into them)

[Draxas]

Good idea. I always wondered why Mages didn't use longswords... I mean, look at Gandalf .

To be extra sure, we could also slap level restrictions on very powerful weapons. For example, to use "The Massive Greatsword of Slaying Everything That Moves", you would need to be a minimum of level 30, or somesuch.