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Post by Altl on Dec 9, 2005 8:36:17 GMT -5
Are transitory posts like this necassary, or am I wasting my time. I mean it does create the image of a map in the pc and overlord's head, but it isn't really content filled. Would going though the square be implied travel? I think you see where I'm going with this.
*Personally I like the illusion it creates.
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Post by Draxas on Dec 9, 2005 10:55:49 GMT -5
It is implied travel, and it's worthwhile to do at least some of the time. For a quick trip through the city like this one, it probably wasn't necessary; you could easily have taken a route that didn't pass through the town square. If you were planning to leave town, however, it's probably a better fit, since all road radiate from the square. Realistically, when you make a travel/flavor post like this, it's mainly to add color to your character and the world. However, each post you make gives an Overlord the opportunity to jump in with something unexpected as well. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can evade random events if you don't post extra "bonus" posts like this one; if we want to spring something on you, we'll find a way regardless. It adds to the game if you do it, but it's not the end of the world (or in many cases, it's not even poor RP) if you don't.
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Post by Altl on Dec 20, 2005 21:22:21 GMT -5
Something that doesn't appear to be specified in the guide(s): What exactly initiates a battle? For example say in my current senario if I was to walk up to a bug, coud I be like: (Image Editing Skills = - 5 pts.) or do yo have to start the battle? Edit: Accidently posted this in the Announcement post now I've skewed everything.
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Post by Draxas on Dec 20, 2005 23:05:44 GMT -5
Minus the very strange Trauma Center image edit (I suppose I should be grateful it isn't Phoenix Wright, eh?), that pretty much sums it up. You simply post that you're going to engage a monster in battle, or something to that effect, and the Overlord will set up the battle seqence post right after that.
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Post by Altl on Dec 22, 2005 14:14:10 GMT -5
Critical hits : do they exist? Should I worry about them?
If I needed to resupply could I leave a quest location/dungeon?
Berserk - lasts all round or just till one of your foes is dead? I'd assume all round.
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Post by Draxas on Dec 22, 2005 15:05:17 GMT -5
Neither critical hits nor misses exist in the current battle system.
You can leave a quest location to resupply if you so choose. However, unless your quest takes you into an area where you would be able to resupply normally (ie. Nayton could currently resupply in Lesko freely, as he is there as part of his quest), you will forefiet any progress you've made on the quest, and have to start from scratch.
Berserk lasts until one group of combatants remains (In most cases, this means either your party or the enemy party, though there may be circumstances where there will be 3 or more parties in battle at the same time). Choose your timing wisely if you decide to use this skill.
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Post by Altl on Dec 23, 2005 0:44:36 GMT -5
Alright. Seems straight foreward, but I do have a few questions.
The enemy's attack is 30 my defense is 20 how does it do 20 damage? (If this was a mix up no problem, I'm just making sure I understand everything.)
Secondly, it says at the end of round 4 that I defend. Am I to assume I was defending the whole round or due to my agility is it a useless technique to me at the current time. Perhaps it carries over to the next round? I'm not sure.
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Post by Draxas on Dec 23, 2005 1:19:05 GMT -5
20 damage is done each time because you're being hit by two different ants for 10 apiece. I added up the total damage to try to minimize the wall of text as much as possible, sorry if that was unclear.
Defending is a "superfast" action, in that it is the first thing done during a round regardless of comparative AGL. You'll notice you were hit once in Round 4, and took half normal damage (5), despite the fact that the ants are faster than you. Thus, defending is always viable if it fits in with your strategy; causing slow characters to be unable to defend enemy actions would not only be unrealistic, but would also penalize a character with low AGL even more than they already are.
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Post by Altl on Dec 23, 2005 1:43:35 GMT -5
Alright I get it now, new fallacy in the OS though: reply #3
With the change I'm curious about how defense works for Magic attacks now. Personally I fell just reducing the damage by half for both is most likely ideal. (The original nullification of physical damage seemed silly to me.)
I figure these things are worth noting since the game is in "beta testing" and it leaves room to fix the details. No hurry to fix the OS just something to note for the future.
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Post by Draxas on Dec 23, 2005 11:11:11 GMT -5
Defnding will reduce both types of damage by half now.
*Heads off to fix the OS*
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Post by Altl on Dec 26, 2005 16:17:07 GMT -5
I've been wondering...
Does the OL have the quest planned from the get-go or is it shaped as things progress based on the description and what happens?
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Post by Draxas on Dec 26, 2005 16:31:47 GMT -5
Depends on the Overlord. I personally have only a vague idea what a quest will unfold into, and half adlib, half script it as I go along. Others may be different, so I couldn't vouch for them.
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Post by Altl on Dec 27, 2005 0:46:34 GMT -5
I feel it is fairly obvious that I didn't play this game in its prime so I really can't look at other posts to find out if my thoughts are premature, but I figure its time for another moderately long post anyway. I of course realize that you, Draxas appear to be the only person working on Soul Shadow as of right now so you can consider most of this post as a means to provoke thought about the game. A good starting point for everything would be something you said previously "Your goals are what you make them, and your character's destiny is what you choose it to be." The statement holds true on many levels both in and out of game, but focusing on in game I think its important to remember that the character's destiny doesn't just rely on the player's goals and choices, but also the overlord's goals and choices. *stop* Don't take this by any means as me saying "I hate what you're doing" on the contrary I'm really quite enjoying the game thus far, and encourage you to keep up the good work; hopefully eventually the others will look into the game. *stop* Consider it a reminder that as an overlord you keep the game interesting and challenging. That being said, I'd like to suggest you consider the properties of the rigid battle system in place in this game. The system is very static with the acception of improving and gaining new skills. A rigid battle system provides both pros and cons for the game. Pros: it is easy to keep track of points; easy to learn; keeps a strict policy for do's and don'ts. Cons: repetitive; one dimensional. In synopsis what I'm saying is its a good battle system as it requires strategy and keeps things simple, but at the same time it can easily get repetitive over time and when things get repetitive the players stagnates and stagnation equates to death. Keeping that in mind (I suck at transitions) what can be done within the realm of the game prevent stagnation? By removing/changing the current battle system the whole game has to be reworked, so let us assume that is out of the question. The obvious answer would be a good plot/story, clearly that is covered something which I must comment on: I'm not sure whether its just an illusion, but it seems you try rather hard to keep to the player's vision of the plot/you make it flow well; the game quests are left open enough to make it so the player can shape the plot of a quest the way he/she wants too. Good story does indeed help to keep thing interesting and makes the player want to keep on playing to find out how things will turn out, even if its something as 'silly' as giant bugs infesting a house. So, you've covered the interesting part of the game and you've set up a decent system for everything, give yourself a pat on the back. Now comes the other half of it all, what do you do to make the game challenging for the player? As a player for me outside of mechanics and plot I look for something that provides a challenge, something that makes me think. Real Quick Chat Log: [23:58] FilthyS: what's the ing point of this broad if all she does is require healing every round? [23:59] Altl33t: When you're playing a game, do you look to be challenged? Like, do you want everything to be easy or do you want to have to think? (this is a real question, I haven't read whatever you're saying about some broad in dqviii) [23:59] FilthyS: I want to have to think but there's a line between challenge and tedium [00:00] Altl33t: Yes. Exactly. [00:01] FilthyS: I don't mind playing artsy games that are just there to be awesome without being a Herculian test of skill. [00:01] FilthyS: That's kinda what Eternal Darkness was. [00:02] FilthyS: Herculean maybe [00:03] Altl33t: Yes, but long term I just can't see playing a game that lacks challenge [00:03] FilthySadist: Spending three or four rounds raising your tension to have it arbitrarily removed by some stupid enemy's ability, for instance, is a bad mechanic. [00:03] Altl33t: Yes. [00:04] FilthyS: "hey this is a bossfight so instead of doing something interesting why not just disable all of their worthwhile tactics?" [00:05] Altl33t: heh The challenge in the game come from what you the overlord throw at the player. In the normal game world there is a general description of how things work and the player can develop a general picture for things so I'd like to emphasize the importance of instances. Instances make it possible for you to change the enviornment on a whim for instance say in balaks house his stairs were busted and I had to find another route or some means to get up the stairs; locks, keys and doors are also important to consider. Doing too much you run the risk of becoming a text based puzzle game, but a little stuff like that never hurt. Also, I'm not sure if you are keeping your enemies strict to the list of skills in the suryan library, but unique skills always provide a challenge. Keeping thins unique and diverse is nice. My concern about challenge routes from the outline of my quest in Balaks house Kill: -ants -centipede -moths It seems like it could easily go la-tea-da kill blah blah..etc etc. Thats about all I have to say for now about the game over all, just points to consider please don't take them all as universal, they aren't. I was aiming for something to get you to think about the game thats all. Kind of a brain storm due to my free time. Once again I didn't proof read, blah. One final thing from the OS There are no skills stores anywhere as far as I can see. edit: I hate myself for writing that much
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Post by Draxas on Dec 27, 2005 3:23:20 GMT -5
Let me first say that, while abstract, I appreciate the fact that you put some time into thinking about what would make the game better. Suggestions from players and even non-players are always welcome in terms of improving the game; the best way to make this a worthwhile experience for everyone is to feel like the things you suggest may well have an impact on the final game. That being said, let me try to respond to this a bit: I feel it is fairly obvious that I didn't play this game in its prime so I really can't look at other posts to find out if my thoughts are premature, but I figure its time for another moderately long post anyway. I of course realize that you, Draxas appear to be the only person working on Soul Shadow as of right now so you can consider most of this post as a means to provoke thought about the game. Sad but true, though the game didn't have much of a "prime" anyway. I like to pretend that Nick is just "real busy" or "has Overlord's block" right now, and so can't work on the game for the time being. I'm pretty sure you know whether or not that's actually the case; if it isn't, at least let me have this small delusion so I don't lose all my motivation to keep this going right away. Keeping the game both interesting and challenging is my primary goal, and always has been. If I was just in this to kill the players or force them to grind for levels for months, what would be the point? Of course, it becomes infinitely harder to maintain this game with hardly anyone playing it. I'll keep updating this as long as at least one person has some interest in it, but most of the more interesting potential of the game really requires a somewhat larger userbase. Ah, the battle system. You'll notice the OS identifies it as Battle System 2.0; don't ask how much more rigid and dull 1.0 was. Unfortunately, even the current system is built on a series of compromises. It was designed with the foremost, overriding goal of being very simple and not requiring any rendom number generation mechanics of any sort. As such, there really is a finite limit to how much you can do with it, however, I also like to think that the flip side of that is that it should be as unintimidating as possible to any potential new players. Regardless, I don't think it would be wise, or even necessarily worthwhile, to rework the battle system; that would be a pretty big undertaking, especially alone, and is pretty likely not to produce any return. Believe it or not, I actually do have a few large, overarching plotlines for the game, which will unfold slowly as certain quests are performed and completed. However, even if a quest is not part of one of the "main" plots (and I can say with some certainty, Balak is not), in many cases I have other interesting subplots that can develop within a quest. Unfortunately, many of these are somewhat reliant on multiple players completing the same quest in turn, as more of the subplot would be revealed each time the quest is completed. I realize that may not be the most effective way to tell a story (especially given the general lack of interest in the game), but it's the most effective method I can muster. Otherwise, the quests would need to be much longer in order to develop a plot in one go-through, and would consequently be geared toward more powerful players... Leading to a situation where nobody even takes the quest on, and the story never being told at all. Balance is key, and unfortunately, rarely ever perfect. As far as having the players shape the plot, that, I think, is one of the key elements to this game. While I may have a plotline in mind for a particular quest, How that plot unfolds is as much up to the player as the Overlord. In many cases, a player will have a distinct portrait of how their character will behave and the decisions they will make, and I think it's a vital that the Overlord make that player feel like those actions have a real impact on how their story unfolds, rather than leaving the impression that their life is "on rails," so to speak. All manner of "instances" can come up during a quest, and many quests will have situations where a player will need to roleplay their way through, rather than simply fight. While the Balak quest (or at least, your version of it) is an exception, there will be plenty of times when using your head will be much more important to the outcome of events than using your sword. In terms of the monsters, most or all of the common monsters of the world will be added to the bestiary after the first time they're encountered. However, unique monsters do exist, and will not have bestiary entries; these will likely be either only encountered once, or will change every time they are encountered. They're also more likely to have skills or abilities that are previously unkonwn, or possibly even unlearnable by normal means. Most "boss" monsters will fall into this category. If you'd like an example of one such monster, you need only review Nick's quest; the bandit he fought was a unique opponent. That pretty much sums it up, sadly. Your particular iteration of the Balak quest is pretty much destined to be a combat challenge only. This may be different the next time a player accepts the quest (especially if Nick decides to OL it instead of me). As always, I appreciate your input. The same goes for anyone else who decides to comment. I will bear your comments in mind, and try to use them to improve the overall experience. There are no skill stores available as yet. They will begin to appear as the game progresses. The somewhat embarassing reasoning behind this fact is: The last time we ran the game, the concept of skills was just being fleshed out and added to the game at the tail end of its life. Unfortunately, that means we didn't quite flesh out and integrate everything from the skill system into the game, and so it remains unimplemented to this day. However, you can expect to see it get introduced before too long; I think what we've laid out is stable and functional enough.
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Post by Altl on Dec 27, 2005 3:45:04 GMT -5
Well, I wasn't really aiming to suggest just bored and brain storming stuff figured if it made me think it might be worth others considering. Nick is busy with school, work, and family matters and is probably keeping away because I'm making comments >.<;; There's been a little activity theres always hope; and considering the game is rather solid they'll eventually get as bored as I was/am to look into it. ----- As for the battle system and my current quest... As stated changing it (the battle system) would be ridiculous when its A. easy to build off of if needed b. a solid system.
And for my current quest I figured the way I play it'd be like that, if anything its a good first quest. I was just concerned they might all be like that; not that it wouldn't be true to the mmo format.
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